Louder Than Weapons – The Task with Audie Cornish

I did not assume we would be doing one other episode a couple of mass capturing so quickly. However right here we’re.

As a neighborhood.

That is from a vigil in Nashville.

Thanks to our artists for sharing the present of music. You’re the custodians of that particular present.

I have been to this place, and I do not imply some form of memorial after a mass capturing, however Nashville particularly. I lived there for a couple of years overlaying the South, and it isn’t a giant metropolis. It is dominant industries of music and publishing could make it really feel even smaller, like everybody is aware of everybody. So when First Woman Jill Biden visited the town to attend a vigil for the capturing victims of the Covenant College, it was an absolute given {that a} nation music artist could be there.

Will the circle be unbroken?

By and by, Lord, by and by.

That is Ketch Secor, founding member of the Grammy Award profitable band Outdated Crow Medication Present. I did not even get an introduction on the vigil, however that is as a result of everybody within the crowd already is aware of who he’s, not only a well-known musician, however a member of their neighborhood and a father or mother of two college aged youngsters. In truth, the college his youngsters attend in East Nashville, he co-founded it in 2016. It is known as the Episcopal College of Nashville.

So I am sporting two completely different hats right here when a faculty capturing occurs in our city. It is each as a father or mother and it is as anyone who’s on the opposite facet of the decide up line as properly. When a rustic singer will get off the highway, likelihood is at 8:00 within the morning on Monday after the massive weekend, that man or gal is in line dropping their child off at a faculty in Nashville, Tennessee. On the subject of your private home, it is completely different.

And the sky lowered within the sky.

Ketch Secor just lately wrote an op ed for The New York Occasions that caught our consideration. It was titled Nation Music Can Lead America Out of its Obsession with Weapons. In it, he requires nation musicians to talk candidly to their audiences about gun tradition. I wished to have him on the present to speak about that op ed, like, can nation music actually assist lead the U.S. out of a gun debate? And what are the stakes for a musician within the style if they really take a stand? And what’s it wish to dwell on the middle of all of it as a father or mother, educator and musician in Nashville, Tennessee? That is the task. I am Audie Cornish.

The capturing on the Covenant College form of prompted you to jot down an op ed for The New York Occasions. However can you’re taking me again to that day a little bit bit? The place had been you if you heard it occurring?

Positive it was on Monday, two weeks in the past, and it was at 10:13 within the morning. I obtained a textual content message from our faculty legal professional saying, I am so sorry, and I had no thought what was occurring. And prayer hand emoji is attention-grabbing.

So getting an emoji like that or getting the compulsory “are you okay” that all of us begin to ship one another now when there is a capturing, particularly at a faculty, you are saying it it hits you in a spot of what? Panic. Worry. What? What do you are feeling?

It is. It is all of the above. It is. It is your youngsters. It is another person’s youngsters. You understand, the pinnacle of college was murdered. The connections between our faculty are very current, and it is as a neighborhood member in Nashville, this stunning realization. Oh, this factor that occurs in different cities has come to our city. And it is come not simply to our city, however to our youngsters, to our the place that’s most sacred.

And even to your nook of that world, Proper? Prefer it did not occur at a public college. It did not occur at a giant college. It occurred at primarily a small Christian main college. Proper. Which is what you what you based one, proper? It had connections.

Yeah. And our faculties are very completely different in that regard and serve completely different populations. Nevertheless, it you understand, we’re all the identical. We’re all each college, public, non-public, constitution, each stripe is within the enterprise of believing that children are our future and should be stewarded and beloved on and guided. And, you understand, that is an actual elemental precept for me.

Can I ask, how outdated are your youngsters and do they go to the college you based?

Yeah, they do. They usually’re 9 and 11.

So did the college you based this Episcopal college, did it go into lockdown? Type of what what did you you all must do consequently?

No, the colleges adjoining to Covenant did, however the others in Nashville didn’t. And so the factor I feel that was so unhappy that first day was the message that went out saying your youngsters haven’t but been notified. The workers is aware of, the academics know, everyone is aware of, all of the dad and mom know, everyone is aware of however the youngsters. And we’ll speak about it tomorrow. However we wished to provide the likelihood to speak about it first. So if you happen to can think about a decide up line, anyone who’s who’s been by a faculty capturing of their neighborhood is aware of, you understand, the decide up line that first day is stuffed with tears.

Proper. And for individuals who aren’t conversant in how massive ups and drop offs work nowadays in faculties, there’s a line proper, the place like there are form of they’re chaperoning your child the actually to the curb and also you decide them up. There’s not identical to wandering out of the constructing the place I feel if you happen to had been a child within the nineties is what you grew up with. Yeah, it is hand at hand go off.

That is proper, Audie. You should have youngsters.

Nicely, the juxtaposition of children stuffed with vibrant pleasure and life and fogeys stuffed with grief and unhappiness coming collectively. This assembly to me was very highly effective.

That means you are standing on the curb ready to get your child. However each father or mother’s face is simply drawn.

And each father or mother is each trainer and simply, you understand, holding again tears as is each trainer. However each little one continues to really feel very protected. And but everyone knows as dad and mom that no little one is protected any longer as a result of this tragedy is in our yard. It is come to Nashville, it is come to us, to our children.

I assume I need to begin possibly with Wagon Wheel, as a result of if individuals go to look you up, that could be the primary track they study. And also you even write about it on this op ed. Inform me a little bit bit about the place you had been in your profession if you wrote this.

Positive. Nicely, Wagon Wheel is my most profitable track.

Headed down South to the Land of the Pines. I am coming my approach to North Carolina, staring up.

And it is a collaboration with Bob Dylan. I wrote it after I was about 17, going to high school up in New England in a prep college known as Exeter, and I used to be had simply realized to play the banjo up there.

So rock me mama like a wagon wheel. Rock me mama, any method you are feeling. Hey mama rock me

You speak about the concept your finest recognized track, Wagon Wheel, is usually blasting out of a truck, so to talk, that has an NRA sticker. And also you point out this particularly, and I need you to speak about why.

Whenever you make the form of music that I make with a fiddle and a banjo and concord singing and a selected type of songwriting, you are partaking in a neighborhood that could be completely different than your personal type of background, and it isn’t. Nicely, there is a prepare going by proper now. That is type of proof..

I bear in mind the prepare. Yeah.

The trains are at all times going by in Nashville.

Simply obtained to maintain it occurring the podcast. It will add a little bit little bit of coloration and speaks to what I am speaking about. You understand, the trains are going by. The vehicles have NRA stickers. You understand, after I was a child, there have been Accomplice flags in every single place. That is The South, y’all. It is completely different than the opposite components of the nation now, for higher or for worse. However it’s what it’s.

And if you’re round Nashville and you’ve got political conversations, wherever the particular person falls on the spectrum, inevitably somebody makes use of that phrase, Nicely, that is The South.

Like, that is purported to cowl quite a lot of issues.

Yeah. And whether or not it is purported to be that method or, you understand, I feel we’re in a state of appreciable development down south, however the vestiges stay, they usually’re necessary to speak about on this regard, as a result of one of many vestiges is gun tradition, and it is largely thought-about just like the insurgent flag prior to now, simply one thing that exists right here. Take care of it, y’all. When actually, we’ve got at all times had the ability to drop the insurgent flag. There’s one vestige that has been challenged successfully.

And effected change in a method, or at the least elevate the form of societal stakes partaking in sure language.

Completely. And so I see the change in gun tradition is rather like one other step in the direction of The South’s evolution.

To my thoughts, nation, Americana, these genres so carefully align with their audiences. It’s extremely very similar to hip-hop, like individuals in hip-hop discuss concerning the tradition and their ties to the music, and the music ties to fairly actually the identification of the individuals listening. And nation feels very a lot the identical method. However consequently, it has quite a lot of like guidelines. You understand, there is a couple strains you they individuals do not such as you to step out of. Are you able to speak about how that performs out in trendy nation?

Positive. Nicely, at this time’s nation singer may not come from The South and is faculty educated. So that they are in has already modified the stereotype of who sings nation music. You understand, it is it isn’t coal miners anymore. The coal miner’s daughter like all of us love Loretta, however that is not who’s on primary proper now. In order that a part of it has modified lots. However what hasn’t modified a lot are the attitudes of the viewers.

Which to be clear. The nation music viewers is also wealthier and are determination makers and our typically managers, there’s been type of like quite a lot of analysis into many people who find themselves within the viewers, and the viewers in all probability appears to be like a little bit completely different than individuals anticipate as properly.

Nicely, I did not know to enter this, however however I am excited that we’re, Audie, as a result of, you understand, nation music actually particularly, and to make clear, up to date nation music on the radio is an actual protected house for us to not speak about political divisiveness and never speak about issues of of substance. However as an alternative we’re all type of studying the Pulp Fiction collectively. And it is it is

Which is why it is in style, proper? I imply, throughout the pandemic, I heard the expansion of listening to the music or streaming possibly was up 15%. It was increased than every other style.

Individuals welcome that protected house.

Journey story. It is you understand, it is very a lot tales, intergenerational household tales. That is the form of stuff that goes primary is the track about grandpa and what an excellent man he was and the way if we could possibly be a little bit bit extra like him, then the world could be a greater place. So this type of, you understand, hallmark form of these beliefs which can be tossed round may not be that reasonable for at this time’s actuality of, you understand, I labored I am a part of a world economic system working two jobs. And, you understand, I am hoping my youngsters are going to go get out of state tuition or no matter. And but we nation music actually offers in nostalgia. And that nostalgia is a an necessary antidote to the entire ache that one can witness within the click on of a mouse.

Proper. So how does gun. Tradition work together with that nostalgia, storytelling, since you’re saying in a method that that is constructed into the music, too.

Johnny Money singing I Shot a Man in Reno to Watch Him Die. Hank Jr Singing about. Yeah, I might wish to spit some seashore nut in that dude’s eye and shoot him with my outdated 45 as a result of a rustic boy can survive. This can be a approach to for nation music to retain authority in a altering world. And guns–

However do you hear it within the trendy music? Are there? You do not have to select any artist. However do individuals nonetheless speak about that?

No, Audie. And that is the factor. We do not speak about weapons. If we do, it is a track about I took my boy attempting to find the primary time. It is once more, dealing within the nostalgia. What it isn’t saying is I’ve obtained an AR-15 in my assortment. However the actuality is that many, many listeners do. And but it is a protected house the place they aren’t confronted by the music to a altering actuality. As a substitute, they’re allowed to say, I taught my little one how one can, you understand, I imply, after I was a child within the eighties, like I went chicken hunt with Dad, I realized how one can hearth a weapon. I realized how one can clear a weapon. This stuff are necessary to the ways in which gun tradition generally is a constructive, however the protected house is that we’re not speaking about what it means in at this time’s America. As a substitute, we’re just about hanging in yesterday’s.

So what’s it like for artists resembling your self to lift this difficulty?

Individuals preserve saying, thanks for being courageous. And I am like. You understand who’s courageous is the child that pulled the hearth alarm, you understand, within the hallway underneath gunfire in our city in a faculty, a child that was a 3rd grader. Now, that is courageous. All I am doing is simply I am a singer and I will sing concerning the stuff that is actual. I am a author, and I will inform what I see.

I do not need to learn an excessive amount of into the zoom, however I. Are you getting emotional speaking about that?

Oh, yeah. I imply, I have been I have been crying for 2 weeks, ya’ll, prefer it’s… When this involves your city they usually bury the identical age child as yours. After which after which, like, whereas the graves are nonetheless contemporary, the information cycle strikes on to Stormy Daniels, and that is the truth. It is like, Good God, the place will we dwell? What will we not care about youngsters in any respect? It is simply over. So that is my method of claiming it isn’t over and it will not be over till these deaths, these three deaths of American youngsters gunned down within the third grade, till they imply one thing, that is when it will be over.

Extra with Ketch Secor in only a second.

You might be demanding a brand new form of motion come out of the south. And that it partly be led by people who find themselves cultural figures as properly, not simply politicians, individuals resembling your self. Why do you assume it may make a distinction?

Nicely, I feel that Nashville stands uniquely poised to guide a response to the college capturing epidemic.

However why do you assume that? Proper? We simply watched the Tennessee State Home expel two members as a result of that they had a protest associated to gun coverage. Expel, not censure, not reprimand. Attempt to kick them out. So what what to your thoughts leads you to assume that?

Nicely, Nashville, although the state legislature is what it’s, Nashville is a really progressive metropolis. And I am not saying that Tennessee goes to prepared the ground. I am saying Nashville.

Yeah, however is not that the powerful half? If in all these states and it isn’t simply Tennessee, you have obtained these blue cities, these little blue dots in a sea of purple, and by purple I imply very conservative, very pro-gun, pro-Second Modification legislatures. This appears like an uphill battle. What you are calling for.

And I do know it is value it. I do not need to as a result of everyone knows it is value it. However I need I need to perceive why you assume nation musicians are in any method uniquely positioned to have this dialog.

Nicely, and I need to I admire you difficult this Audie. Very first thing I need to say is that altering segregation was an uphill battle in Tennessee. And and when Nashville within the early Nineteen Sixties, within the late Nineteen Fifties mentioned its first foot ahead, this was the proving floor, different components of the South had been too unsafe. However individuals gathered in Nashville, a metropolis of faculties, a metropolis of progressive thought within the South to have interaction in nonviolent civil disobedience. That is the place John Lewis got here. That is the place the Freedom Riders first cease was.

Their trainings, proper, with James Lawson and at Vanderbilt.

All of that coaching at Fisk and Vanderbilt occurred proper right here in Nashville, Tennessee. That reveals our means as a as a neighborhood to exist exterior of the state. Now, identical to in that point, the state legislator mentioned, what are you speaking about? That is not going to occur in our state. We forged the deciding vote on on ladies’s suffrage. I imply, Tennessee has been a bellwether place in these two different cases of nice significance. That is the third. That is the a part of the dying knell of the outdated South, which goes to have to vary. You understand, 50 years from now I feel we’ll be trying again at these couple of years because the deciding time for a assault weapons ban in the USA.

Once more, I need to carry it to the query about nation music artists, particularly mainstream ones who given what we all know concerning the music, primary, have been socially punished for activism by what we name Music Row, by music radio, by nation music radio particularly, which nonetheless has a really form of robust grip in a method programmers do, and even latest historical past. Proper. When you consider the Dixie Chicks, and many others., their complete story is a narrative of being ostracized for his or her activism.

You understand, for a man like me, I am not beholden to too many individuals in any respect, however I am not a mainstream. I am not on the Jumbotron, you understand, I am not on the awards present with the highest ten performers of the 12 months.

Do you want these individuals for the motion you are speaking about?

They’ve a very far attain and the ability to speed up an inevitable motion to vary this for our children. And I am asking them by this piece and in addition nose to nose in my neighborhood, by conversations of textual content. You understand, I’ve reached out to so many singers prior to now two weeks.

And what sort of textual content you ship.

Hey, I am simply reaching out to all my Nashville music neighborhood within the wake of the capturing and sharing this story that I wrote that got here out at this time in The Occasions. Should you get a sec, please have a look.

What’s been essentially the most constructive response? What’s been essentially the most irritating one?

Essentially the most irritating one is silence. I say within the op ed piece that I feel silence is complicity. I went into the studio and I and I recorded a brand new track on the topic. Because the capturing, which is just two weeks in the past there have been so some ways to be engaged with this horrible story, and it is highly effective answer.

I imply, the explanation why I am asking is as a result of your op ed mentioned one thing fairly particular, proper? That there are artists who’re drained at being on the form of mercy of the whims of fearmongers, you mentioned, and that they are prepared to talk to an impressionable viewers. And since different genres, like we talked about hip hop earlier or pop, they do wade into societal points. They are often confrontational about politics. It is not like there is not a mannequin on the market. So I assume what wouldn’t it take, do you assume, for individuals in your trade? To begin to do one thing related, which is which is, in impact, what you are calling for.

It’s starting and it is, I feel, in its infancy, but it surely’s already began.

And so it is about fanning the flames and constructing a giant bonfire out of what is already crackling kindling. For instance, we have got a profit live performance right here in Nashville that helps Covenant College. And if you have a look at the the roster, who’s on the marquee, it isn’t the standard Americana of us who at all times say, you understand, we stand with youngsters, we rise up in opposition to gun violence. As a substitute, it is primary chart toppers. They’re there. They’ve put their hat into the ring.

However is it as a result of it is is it going to be a protected house from politics? If it is a second of a memorial, is that what makes it okay for a giant artist to be there? Proper. As a result of no person’s going to rise up and say we should always have gun management.

There’s nothing however up right here as a result of we we’ve got began on the very baseline the place music popping out of Nashville on the radio says nothing about violence in opposition to youngsters in our faculties or about the necessity to rethink the kinds of weaponry that’s related to the Second Modification. Kelsea Ballerini talked about it on an award present. These are the sorts of issues that when anyone takes one step and the motion can shortly observe it, then the following step is not as exhausting to make. And what I am asking for is that subsequent step. You understand, I’ve gotten quite a lot of suggestions from my viewers. And like I say in an op ed piece, you understand, I see the NRA sticker on the again of lot of vehicles blaring in my tunes. So, you understand, and we’re out on the highway with Hank Jr. this summer season. So, I imply, I am I am used to taking part in to an viewers that’s our nation folks. However I really like my nation folks viewers. And I and I need to have the ability to be actual with them. I can transfer freely in each of the areas that the 2 massive silos within the nation. Like, I’d go to work in a single silo and are available house and the opposite one. And I am good with that as a result of I really like these individuals.

What’s your message to these artists who’re simply nonetheless very reluctant?

Nation music has an important future in these occasions to swing out previous the fences which have corralled it in so tightly. That I consider on this style. And I consider that it has the ability to hold that fact. You understand, it is very a lot rooted in a gospel custom of of the lamentation, the calling out to the good spirits. Assist us, Lord. We’re simply your youngsters. We do not know shit. We’re we’re dying down right here. Assist!

Are you able to discuss concerning the track that you have written out of this second?

New materials? You understand, typically, identical to I am in a songwriting temper right here, I am in a a second in time with quite a lot of completely different alternatives as a author to have interaction on this, whether or not it is, you understand, writing the appropriate caption for {a photograph} on Instagram or writing an op ed piece for The New York Occasions or being on this podcast with you, Audie. There’s so some ways to decide on my phrases proper now and try to have them be resonant for the ache that we’re feeling in Nashville, Tennessee and across the nation as a result of we’re simply so drained, dad and mom, that our children should not protected of their faculties. What meaning for me as a songwriter is that I even have the prospect to jot down new music about this and to place my cash the place my mouth is. So I obtained a brand new track that is popping out known as Louder Than Weapons. That is yeah, I simply recorded it two days in the past.

Give me a way of the tune or lyrics.

Nicely, gosh, I really feel like I should not even introduced it up as a result of it is so…anytime you get a you understand, individuals are cagey about their new stuff!

You are coping with a dude that wept by the entire songwriting course of. Let me sing it for you.

All proper. wakened this morning. It was Groundhog Day. I noticed the identical black veil on a crying face and a flag flying half method. This time it was individuals I do know gunned down in a minute or so. Solely God is aware of when it will cease. However ideas and prayers ain’t sufficient. Louder than weapons. Extra highly effective than bullets flying. Is the voice rising up saying it is about time to place the final nail within the coffin, put the final physique within the floor, calling on each city, shout. Louder than weapons There is a legislation on a dusty scroll.

Ketch Secor is the daddy of two youngsters in Nashville, Tennessee. He is additionally a singer, songwriter and founding member of the band Outdated Crow Medication Present.

Now The Task is a manufacturing of CNN Audio. Our producers are Madeleine Thompson,Jennifer Lai, Lori Galarreta, Carla Javier, and Dan Bloom. Our affiliate producers are Isoke Samuel and Allison Park. Our senior producers are Matt Martinez and Haley Thomas. Dan Dzula is our technical director. Steve Lickteig is our government producer. Particular due to Katie Hinman. I am Audie Cornish and thanks for listening.

I am the louder than weapons. oooooo. Louder than weapons. I do not need to get up on one other Groundhog Day. No, I do not need to hear one other rat a tat tat tat echoed down the hallway. Freedom’s simply one other phrase for letting each voice be heard, each coronary heart, each hand. Each city take a stand. Louder than weapons. Extra highly effective than bullets flying. Is the voice rising up, saying it is about rattling time. We put the final nail within the coffin. We put the final physique within the floor. I am calling on each city. Louder than weapons.

Sending that one out to Louisville at this time.

Ketch, thanks a lot for sharing that with us.

Yeah, we obtained. We obtained to. We obtained to do it, y’all.